User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Showing results 1 to 15 of 24

Thread: Flawed Philosophy: KRS and 'Being Hip-Hop'

  1. #1
    You've Earned a Custom Title!
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,108
    Battle Record
    14-13

    Flawed Philosophy: KRS and 'Being Hip-Hop'

    Flawed Philosophy: KRS and 'Being Hip-Hop'
    Adisa Banjoko


    Blastmaster KRS ONE,

    For the last few years I have watched you write or speak about the merits of "being Hip Hop" and alluding to some spiritual core power within Hip Hop itself. While Hip Hop does indeed command more power than any other musical art form before it, too much weight is being put on its true power and potential. I believe that your idea on "being Hip Hop" while sounding and feeling good, is in truth weak. I think it is dangerous for those who truly love Hip Hop culture authentically. Following this concept gives the illusion that Hip Hop can and should be equal to other cultures and faiths like African, Latino, Japanese, Buddhist, Judaic, Islamic, or Christian.

    The sub-culture of Hip Hop is not built to support people in the manner that one can "BE" of other dominant cultures or faiths. The richness of the contributions of other faiths and cultures to Hip Hop are what MAKE Hip Hop great. I submit that Hip Hop is a subculture. Being a sub-culture, Hip Hop is not meant to facilitate such things. It is meant to absorb things that exist already and re-frame them in a contemporary urban environment.

    To not realize this point, is to mistake the scaffolding of a building for the actual foundation. I love Hip Hop! But I will not pile cultural and spiritual bricks to its structure (especially when I KNOW it was not meant to support such weight).

    One of the more disturbing ideas proposed in your philosophy is that in order to BE "Hip Hop" one should consider giving up who they originally claimed themselves to be (African, Jewish, Irish, Japanese, Christian, Native American etc.) . However, almost everything "Hip Hop" now is something else from some other culture, that was deemed "Hip Hop" later.

    Think about it. Were Technic 1200's turntables, Adidas shelltoe shoes, and Kung Fu flicks, made with Hip Hop in mind? Or did those who claim the sub-culture of Hip Hop embrace them, thus "making" them "Hip Hop"? From this perspective, what is and is not "Hip Hop" is merely an issue of consumerism.

    Further, was the African oral tradition HIP-HOP?, The martial arts fighting system of Capoeria? The African American political ideologies of Malcolm X? Were the Black Panthers created specifically FOR "Hip Hop"? Or, were these movements and ideals MADE "Hip Hop" by the Hip Hop community?

    Imagine Hip Hop without the Black nationalistic infusions of Public Enemy and Paris? How different would Hip Hop be minus the Latin flavor of Cypress Hill and the dance movements of Pop Master Fabel? Can you imagine Hip Hop without the eastern philosophical insights from Wu-Tang Clan or Afu-Ra? What would Hip Hop be without the strong beauty of songs like Kanye's "Jesus Walks" or Talib Kewli's "The Proud"? Hip Hop has never and will never stand on its own.

    With or without Hip Hop's support, approval or understanding those technological advances, clothing lines, movements and philosophies will continue to exist.

    What is and is NOT Hip Hop is usually co-opted by those in the Hip Hop community from an outside source. Very little in Hip Hop has been "invented" by "us". However MUCH has been re-mixed and re-framed to fit the Hip Hop subculture. We must be honest about this fact if we truly wish to see our true selves. To do so does not negate the greatness of Hip Hop.

    Also, racially and culturally speaking, a friend of mine in the U.K., Kevin Sekweyama made a very salient point. "Let's say the mother is German and the father is Australian. If the kid's father is a B-boy is the kid supposed to say 'My mother is German, and my Dad is Hip Hop'?" The mere suggestion sounds ridiculous!

    KRS, I know you must see how this kind of thinking spirals toward the insane. You must acknowledge the myopic mind state you’ve suggested.

    We must not get so emotionally caught up in the moment that we mistake Hip Hop for something that it is not. The music of the civil rights era was soul, and R&B...But no one from that era says "I am soul". We must remember that the MOVEMENT was the source of the music and not the other way around.

    Further, to paraphrase Hip Hop children’s book author of "Turntable Timmy" Mike Perry. He noted that Chicano low rider culture is a major force in the community. But no one would ever say, 'I am no longer Chicano, I am a low rider'.

    After heard your statements I would like to formally challenge you, KRS ONE, to a debate on this subject in a public forum. Know that this challenge is not intended to be physical or on wax- but rather a purely philosophical one . I further assert that nothing in the so-called "Gospel of Hip Hop" will have new concepts. I submit that everything in the so-called "Gospel" will be a previously "eastern" or "western" concept framed in a Hip Hop context. Rather than do that, why not just give those who seek knowledge the real roots of the paths you expound upon (Buddhism, Rig Vedas, Taoism, Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc.)? Isn't that more honorable than masking other faiths with the veil of Hip Hop? Simply changing the context does not make it new.

    Is Hip Hop possibly the world’s greatest sub-culture? No doubt. Has it given many people a new passion for politics, their own sense of self and a new found love for spirituality? No doubt. But it's nothing for us to "be". It is for us to love, nurture, and nourish with truth as we grow. You should also know that these positions are my secondary reasons for denying the "I am Hip Hop" philosophy. I'd rather tell you the rest in person.

    KRS ONE, I would like to debate you before the end of 2004 at the Riekes Center for Human Enhancement, located in the California Bay Area. Ideally, any weekend of your choice in October 2004 would be best for me . But any month before the year’s close is fine. I propose that we each compose a team of two individuals including ourselves to present for twenty minutes each.

    I do not want this to be just about you and me. Or about you being from the east coast and me being from the westside. I am not alone in my position. There are others from all over the world that agree that the cultural and spiritual values of Hip Hop culture are being oversold in this philosophical doctrine. Teams make the debate more lively. Let's raise the bar on Hip Hop debates in a civilized manner in 2004.

    I also propose that this event not be done for money. Any proceeds from the event should go to non-profit organizations of our choosing to be stated at the time of the debate. Know that I make this challenge not out of remote malice, or ill intent. But I do this because you taught me through your records and lectures to speak the truth and think for myself. So now I wish to bring the truth to you on a subject that we both care so much about.

    I also encourage others in the Hip Hop community world- wide think about what it means to "be Hip Hop". I pray they discuss what it means to negate their ancestry, racial affiliation, spiritual base, etc., to "be Hip Hop". Let's talk about it.

    Do not shortchange yourself, and the seekers of knowledge by denying this request. If you feel confident you can defend your statements and the so-called "Gospel", respond within the next 30 days to set an actual date for the "Great Debate". If you make your points manifest, I will concede that you are correct. However, if I am able to prove my points, I ask that you concede flaws in your theory of "being Hip Hop" before the world. I look forward to hearing from you soon and having a passionate public debate in the near future.

    Peace,
    Adisa Banjoko Host of One Mic Radio
    www.iciclenetworks.com
    soulpolisher2001@yahoo.com
    Don’t forget AllHipHop.com! We want to know what you think! Send to editorial@allhiphop.com.
    Post Your Feedback.

    http://www.allhiphop.com/editorial/

  2. #2
    The R in RB.Com
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Age
    41
    Posts
    3,785
    Battle Record
    5-1
    Hmm, could be very big for 'hip hop' if this goes off....without a pre/post debate shooting

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 50 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  3. #3
    Close To The Wrath Of God Brother Blue Collar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Nyc
    Age
    37
    Posts
    18,126
    Battle Record
    8-9
    wow, i would tape that debate. post if krs-one says yes or no
    I believe i'm making some good music, please just wait for me




    [sc]https://soundcloud.com/hood-society/what-you-fear-featuring-a-cas[/sc]

  4. #4
    You've Earned a Custom Title!
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,108
    Battle Record
    14-13
    I doubt KRS-One could defend himself against this. The writer states some very strong points in the article. But it would be interesting to see how he responds though...

  5. #5
    But above you
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    2,404
    Battle Record
    12-0
    hes kind of right what is truely hip hop i mean who defines what is hip hop cant wait to see what krs one sais

    good post t west
    Last edited by Under Dawg; July 12th, 2004 at 11:53 AM

  6. #6
    Close To The Wrath Of God Brother Blue Collar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Nyc
    Age
    37
    Posts
    18,126
    Battle Record
    8-9
    Quote Originally Posted by :)
    hes kind of right what is truely hip hop i mean who defines what is hip hop cant wait to see what krs one sais

    good post t west

    we define hip-hop: the listeners, i hate chingy period and think he's not true hip-hop, but there are sum people maybe alot who would consider him to be hip hop. so we define what hip hop is, only real question is if our definition of hip-hop is correct
    I believe i'm making some good music, please just wait for me




    [sc]https://soundcloud.com/hood-society/what-you-fear-featuring-a-cas[/sc]

  7. #7
    But above you
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    2,404
    Battle Record
    12-0
    its kind of stupid for us as listeners to do that though because even though i hate nelly there really isnt a true definition for what real hip hop is.. its not like there was a written statement in the beginning of rap saying.. if a rapper makes songs about diamonds or girls he is not real hip hop..its hard to define hip hop like the guy said.. were the elements that we look at as hip hop now made for hip hop or were they just adopted by a few and labeled as hip hop because they like it? cuz if thats the case then anyone can make a label of what they feel is hip hop thus there is really no true hip hop

  8. #8
    You've Earned a Custom Title!
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,108
    Battle Record
    14-13
    To find out what is hip-hop...it would be a very long process that would probably leave us more confused than how we are right now.

    First, You would have to travel back to the birth of hip-hop.

    Now i'm speaking from my knowledge, if some of my points are wrong, feel free to correct me. Now...

    Hip Hop was born in the early 1970's in bad neighbourhoods in the Southern Bronx. Basically, It was teenangers who were speaking about life in the Bronx and the struggles they faced. It was poetry over a beat.

    Now...With this new musical genre born, you have your pioneers...and each basically have something different to say about it (Kool Herc, Grandmaster Flash, Afrikka Bambaataa, Run DMC, Sugarhill gang, etc...). With this, you get a lot of different versions of "What is really Hip-Hop"...each being a pioneer...they believe that their way is right, and i'm sure that they would disagree one some points within hip hop. An example would be that maybe one feels that flow is the most important thing, while one is more focused on lyrics...

    Also, Understand this...
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtis Blow
    1. Rap is talking in rhyme to the rhythm of a beat.

    2. Hip-hop is a culture, a way of life for a society of people who identify, love, and cherish rap, break dancing, DJing, and graffiti.
    Also, as the culture spread throughout the world, different areas began creating what "they felt was hip-hop"...and overall, the culture was lost. New York has it's only style, Down South has their own style, The Western Coasts have their own styles...so overall, the culture of hip-hop went through evolution.

    Basically...The original question "What is Hip-Hop" can not really be answered. You can look at the original meaning and decide from that...but with evolution...the term "Real Hip-Hop" don't exist anymore. It's like the way the word "Nigger" is used today...to discover what it means...you can look at the original meaning...but ultimately, that meaning has been lost now. People just use it as another word for black people.

    Ultimately, Real Hip-Hop can not be defined. But hell...I'd rate KRS-One pretty close it.

    Just my two cents.

    pz.
    - T-West.

  9. #9
    You've Earned a Custom Title!
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,108
    Battle Record
    14-13
    uppin...

  10. #10
    better than legendary Neruda II's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    N.O.V.A.
    Age
    35
    Posts
    14,871
    Battle Record
    8-2
    I think you make good points, great points infact. I have to disagree that real hip hop cannot be defined. Anything can be defined, but defined with different conotations. Just because some one says "oh you're a latino", it doesn't mean that I love to eat beans, came to america in a boat, and like to stab people, but that is what comes to mind when people say that. Everyone can have their own definition for the term, it is not a lost word.
    murder murder

  11. #11
    But above you
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    2,404
    Battle Record
    12-0
    ^^ blahh of course people know that hip hop is rhyming over bets kurtis blow is stupid though raps more of a rhythm between lines than just talking.. if people just talked over beats no one would listen.. but then again like i was saying you cant really define what is real hip hop as far as the music goes like as long as someone is rhyming over beats.. how can you say just because they rhyme about diamonds or girls that their not real hip hop? everyone has their different opinions about what hip hop is thus it cant be put in a single hole

    man how are you not getting this there is no rule that states what real hip hop is its all peoples opinions.. you even used your latino argument to prove my point even more
    Last edited by Under Dawg; July 12th, 2004 at 07:53 PM

  12. #12
    We off That Kris Cain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    23,338
    Battle Record
    5-3
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharp.
    I think you make good points, great points infact. I have to disagree that real hip hop cannot be defined. Anything can be defined, but defined with different conotations. Just because some one says "oh you're a latino", it doesn't mean that I love to eat beans, came to america in a boat, and like to stab people, but that is what comes to mind when people say that. Everyone can have their own definition for the term, it is not a lost word.
    ster·e·o·type
    n.

    1. A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.
    2. One that is regarded as embodying or conforming to a set image or type.
    Welcome to reality.

  13. #13
    better than legendary Neruda II's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    N.O.V.A.
    Age
    35
    Posts
    14,871
    Battle Record
    8-2
    I said that there is a definition for real hip hop.
    I never said that there was a real definition for hip hop.
    There is a difference, but to each their own, I guess.
    murder murder

  14. #14
    better than legendary Neruda II's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    N.O.V.A.
    Age
    35
    Posts
    14,871
    Battle Record
    8-2
    That definition proves nothing other than most people don't know what hip hop is. Hell most people can't tell you the difference between hip hop and rap.
    I believe that there is a definition for hip hop but one's own definition. Not something that can be found in a dictionary.
    murder murder

  15. #15
    But above you
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    2,404
    Battle Record
    12-0
    ^^^ is it just me or did that make no fuckin sense.. if there can be a definition for hip hop.. but no real definition for hip hop then how can there be a definition for something thats not real or existant?

Similar Threads

  1. KRS ONE Marley Marl- Hip Hop Lives
    By djb in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 22nd, 2007, 05:43 PM
  2. "Southern Hip Hop is staying true to real hip hop" so says Krs-1
    By Brother Blue Collar in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: January 1st, 2007, 11:09 AM
  3. KRS-One - Temple of Hip-Hop Press Kit
    By Opie M. in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: March 21st, 2005, 09:32 PM
  4. Krs-One's Temple of Hip Hop...
    By illogix06 in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: August 5th, 2004, 01:46 AM
  5. Krs-one Praises Eminem and calls him the hip to hop
    By Envious Stylez in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: May 27th, 2003, 08:50 PM

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •